cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/45991302
Ford calls speed cameras “nothing but a tax grab.” As do many reckless drivers. But surely he knows that speeding fines are not taxes. Even if they were, they’re voluntary: If you don’t want a speeding ticket, don’t speed.
…
In Ottawa, compliance with speed limits rose from from 16 per cent before speed cameras to 57 per cent after only three months, and to more than 80 per cent after three years. Instances of speeding at more than 15 km/h above the posted limit dropped from 14 per cent, pre-speed cameras, to less than one per cent after three years of the city using them.
A survey of more than 1,000 Ottawa residents, meanwhile, determined that of the 35 per cent of respondents who had been dinged with an speed camera fine, 69 per cent said it changed their driving behaviour. That’s what we want from these cameras.
And of course:
A study conducted by SickKids hospital in Toronto and published in July in the British Medical Journal’s Injury Prevention journal found that the use of speed cameras in school zones led to a 45 per cent reduction in speeding motorists, while the 85th percentile speed — the speed at or below which 85 per cent of the drivers travelled — dropped by almost 11 km/h. “The observed reduction in speed is likely important in reducing collisions and injuries,” the study noted
The article shows some of the positive effects speed cameras are having on drivers. Feel free to disagree, but it’s nice to see interventions that make roads safer.
Well it doesn’t actually say that. There’s no measurments of accidents or injuries here. The only metrics are reduced speeding in the measured areas. I don’t tend the speed much, but I do now avoid the areas with cameras - I just cut through smaller residential streets more. How do we know this is any safer?
Aren’t residential streets lower speeds too, so unless you’re speeding there you’re going slower on purpose?
And if you don’t speed, why do you avoid areas with cameras?
It’s when they drop more arterial roads to low speeds like 50km/h or even less that taking shortcuts through residential roads becomes more enticing. And doing 55km/h or 60 in 50 zones is pretty normal when there’s no camera. Yes it’s technically speeding, but very common.
Sure but you haven’t actually answered either question
I think the reference to ‘shortcut’ explains the first. And accidentally going a few km/h over the limit is too great a risk if one might get a ticket, so that’s why it’s best to avoid the road with the camera even if you’re nominally trying to go at the speed limit. Do I have to spell it out any more?
Yes please, because “going a few km/h over the limit” doesn’t trigger those cameras, there’s quite a generous threshold (manufacturers give it a healthy margin to not have it within measurement error variances). Generally you need to be 10km/h or more above the limit to get a ticket.
So if you are not speeding, there’s no reason to avoid routes with cameras. So do spell it out why would you prefer going 30 to 50km/h through a residential zone instead of going 50km/h through a normal arterial just because there are cameras.
There are reports of tickets for 2km/h over. penalties start at 1km/h over.
Whatever - you do you. I’ll stick to the smaller roads away from the cameras. No risk to me then.
Cameras here don’t work that way. The usual implementation is that nothing within 10% of the speed limit generates a ticket - most often even higher, because the sensor doesn’t have that accuracy, so you’re making your life harder for no reason
There are three instances of positive change in the original post.
It’s all measured speed reduction in the camera zones. That doesn’t mean people are driving safer, or slower on average even. That people have changed their behavior doesn’t mean it’s safer. More use of smaller residential roads that don’t have cameras is probably not safer. Allowing rich people to speed as much as they want and just pay a fee probably isn’t safer either.
Collisions at lower speed generally result in less serious injuries. Bringing drivers back down to posted speed limits should provide safety benefits. That has shown a direct reduction in collisions and injuries.
Fees should definitely scale with income or wealth. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone on Lemmy argue against that.
Few months back City of Barrie released some info that showed the reduction in speed was long lasting, well after the removal of the speed cameras. This shows a positive change on drover behaviour, even if it is only for the school zone, that’s a big win in my books.
Ignoring the assumption that traffic cameras cause decreases in AADT, when the alternative is people speeding through school zones, yes it is likely much safer. Fewer pedestrians, particularly kids which are notorious for not paying attention and are more likely to wander into lanes, means that it is a net positive for those areas.
Is this any different than it currently is? Definitely isn’t making things worse.
Logically, slower speeds should make safer streets. But it’s not 100% a sure thing. When people are in a hurry, they find other ways and that’s when things get more dangerous.
And no, traffic cams only give monetary fines not demerit points or a criminal record like if you get pulled over by a cop. They don’t assess who the driver is, so they can’t blame it on a particular person. So rich people don’t care at all about going fast in those areas - it’s just a fee to go fast to them.
Can you try explaining this? I’ve reread it and can’t make sense of it. Are you saying that speed cameras INCREASE how much people hurry? I disagree. School safety zones are not big areas - if they’re having a notable impact on your length of drive, that’s weird. Forcing people to go 20km/hr slower through those zones via speed cameras shouldn’t add more than a couple of seconds onto a drive. Even if the zone was a km long, that’s a 30s difference going at 60 vs 40. You’re more likely to be caught at a streetlight longer than that.
Data isn’t showing that. Data, when released, shows top speeds of ~10km/hr over the limit once cameras have been in place. Demerits can’t be assigned until 15km/hr over.
Yes, some people hit the gas just after the camera. They also peel off on smaller streets to ‘make up time’. I suspect these are people who are in a hurry / late, or just impatient. People do this on the highway too after clearing radar traps. Or after overtaking someone traveling slowly. I don’t know if the effect is significant. People are weird and side effects can be unexpected. I’m just not sure that we should totally assume cameras that slow down measured speeds actually increases safety.
I haven’t seen data like you mentioned- it seems strange that there wouldn’t be an array of speeders like anywhere else. I think most people’s complaints about these things are that they trigger at too close to the limit - doing 52 in a 50 zone is not unsafe, and can help with the flow of traffic. It probably depends on the area. I can afford a ticket, but I still avoid areas with cameras. With all the traffic calming stuff and cameras, I actually just avoid going out more and order stuff from Amazon instead of supporting my local stores.
This is not what happens, though