I’m frustrated. I’m a long time fan of Motorola. Their phones have been pretty simple and easy to remove junk apps. Recently I got an update that forced perplexity on my phone.

  • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today
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    2 days ago

    Do you need root? It’s a big security risk, for multiple reasons.

    You can always just get a used pixel (no further money to Google), and install a custom ROM that allows your bootloader to relock after installation. I personally prefer Graphene for this, but I believe Lineage also allows you to do so. They both have no bloat from the start, and GOS has sandboxed Google Play and Lineage has the ability to use microG iirc.

    GOS can be installed via chromium based browsers, even from another phone. Security wise, there’s nothing more secure at the moment.

    • surjomukhi@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 days ago

      Desktop operating systems provide root access without forcing you to bypass manufacturer restrictions. Why should phones be any different?

      • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today
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        1 day ago

        Android is not designed the same way as a desktop operating system. For example, Android is designed to sandbox all applications and never require kernel level access. This means that if one app is malicious, as long as you haven’t granted it extra permissions, it’s much more difficult for it to affect any other apps. If you root, you’re breaking that level of defense. Android simply wasn’t designed for users to need or regularly use root, whereas Linux was built from the ground up with that expectation.

        Root also makes applying security patches a challenge. Android doesn’t have a standard package manager like desktop Linux. This means that users with rooted phones are less inclined to go through the pain of updating. I haven’t rooted in a long while, but I can confirm that when I did root, I tended to avoid it for far too long. Anyway, the way Android’s incremental OTA updates work is by comparing partition hashes. When rooted, this hash gets changed and you can no longer install OTA updates.

        Further, root on Android can (and as far as I recall, does) affect verified boot, meaning if you want verified boot, every time you reboot you lose root. Android verified boot detects changes to system partition and either doesn’t boot or reverts the changes. If you turn off verified boot, you cannot know if your system has been modified in a malicious way.

        Put a slightly different way, Android’s security model is entirely different than the security model of something like Linux. Linux expects you to need sudo/root for certain tasks, and other protections are built around that. Android does not expect you to ever need root, so it’s not a consideration in its security design.

        By rooting, you’re not just bypassing manufacturer restrictions, you’re bypassing Android’s security design entirely. It’s much more secure to just install a debloated, degoogled OS that can do verified boot.

        Now, if mobile Linux ever takes off, then I’m sure it would be more like a desktop distro and less like Android.

      • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today
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        1 day ago

        Pixels are (currently) the only phones that allow for all of the following at once:

        • Proper verified boot
        • Bootloader unlocking (this is most important for any custom ROM installation, regardless of ROM)
        • Hardware memory tagging
        • Full hardware isolation
        • Hardware key attestation
        • Ability to disable USB data (and also USB entirely) at the hardware level
        • Everything else on this list

        In short, it’s simply because Pixel currently has the most hardware level security features of any Android phone (on top of bootloader unlocking), for now. The Graphene team is allegedly in talks with an OEM to produce a phone specifically designed for it, which may be just as or even more secure. Time will tell.

        I feel the need to mention that I’m not trying to shill for Graphene and especially not Google. Depending on your threat model and goal, Lineage or similar might be just fine for you. I just don’t think there’s anything more secure than GOS at the moment, and if that is important to you, along with minimizing bloat, it’s a great choice. I do highly recommend avoiding root and instead just get something that you can unlock the bootloader for, and then install a degoogled ROM. Just make sure you don’t accidentally buy a permanently locked phone, make sure it says unlocked somewhere in the listing.

      • Broken@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        I’m sure its in the link the other comment provided, but I’ll call out that you not only can unlock your bootloader to install your OS but you can relock it so nothing can install anything afterwards.

        So if your phone is ever not in your possession you can be sure that nobody installed anything. Also keeps your phone safe from malware (at root level).