• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.

    • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.

        • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          21 hours ago

          Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.

          • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            9 hours ago

            Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy.

            How do you intend on defending against a NATO invasion without a hierarchically-organised military?
            Similarly, how do you intend on resisting NATO espionage and sabotage?

            • Lenins_Dumbbell@lemmygrad.ml
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              5 hours ago

              They don’t. They are most likely from a NATO or NATO aligned country who prefer being well off at the expense of the third world

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            19 hours ago

            Management and administration is usually referred to by anarchists as justifiable hierarchy, because pretending management isn’t a form of heirarchy is fringe among anarchists, in my experience. Secondly, states are not used that way in socialist systems.

            • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              17 hours ago

              From my experience designated people share information but they have no authority to make decisions. Also from my experience every state is infected with capitalism.

          • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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            21 hours ago

            Yet again, “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.”

            Y’all have had the better part of two centuries to read On Authority, it ain’t even that long. Management without hierarchy jfc, whatever sort of structure you think that entails I can guarantee you’d have called the exact same structure totalitarian or some such childish name when it was actually attempted in a socialist state.