I know, toxic masculinity says “Real men don’t talk about their problems”. We don’t have to tell us the reason society has discouraged us from therepy, too many of us are close minded to it anyway. Just plant seeds and get men talking about shit, and plant more seeds about healthy ways of coping.
The structure of therapy required for men is different to women. A lot of therapy training is aimed at women. This means when men get up the courage to go, they can often find it ineffective.
I’m 1 for 4 with therapy providers.
I would also argue that a lot of men need structural changes to their life that they can’t make currently. Emotional based therapy is not very effective against structural problems.
Once again. You have only just learned that when men get therapy, their outcome is comparable to that of women. Before now you were musing whether therapy is as effective as staying home masturbating when we’ve known for ten years that it’s better. Finding out you are ten years out of date is not the time to keep asserting without evidence. It’s time to find some,listen, and learn.
What your asserting doesn’t even contradict what I’m saying. “Men get similar outcomes when accessing mental health services” is not contradicted by “men need different mental health services”
I’m 1 for 4 with therapy providers.
Again, that sucks I’m sorry to hear it.
Again, just because Patient A is allergic to drug A, Drug A does direct harm. That doesn’t mean the Drug A isn’t recommended for p
Patient B. I reccomend you listen.
You may suggest alternative treatment for patient A, you haven’t. You only just learned therapy is effective for patient b,c,d,…
I would also argue that a lot of men need structural changes to their life that they can’t make currently. Emotional based therapy is not very effective against structural problems.
Again, I not only agree. I would add the women need structural changes to their life they can’t make currently. This does not contradict the data. It doesn’t contradict what I’m saying. I reccomend you listen.
Is a therapy session better for men than watching a YouTube video about mental health? taking a walk? Reading a book? Bingeing a TV series? Chronically masturbating?
Saying stuff like that is self protection cope so you rationalize staying away. None of those are even remotely close replacement to therapy. I was resistant for a long time to therapy, but actually going has dramatically improved my life in ways that consuming media never could.
I’ve heard similar arguments from other people, with the only functional difference being the replacement of the word “therapy” with the word “church”.
I accept that therapy has benefited you. I accept that church has benefited others.
My own experiences with therapy do not match yours. Much like my interaction with religion, I found multiple experiences with therapy to be denigrating and exploitative. Despite external criticism and accusations of “toxicity”, I feel my viewpoints on therapy are as valid as anyone else’s.
Well, you’re entitled to your own view. I don’t know you or your history so I’m not going to harp on you. It was obvious from the jump you have therapy trauma and I’m deeply sorry for that. I’ve had bad experiences as a teen with therapy, but looking back I can see I was part of the problem. So now I just see these types of arguments as justification to keep living in a miserable dysfunctional way.
However I will say comparison between organized religion and a medical science is sort of silly. I get what you’re going for, different strokes for different folks. But therapist are trained medical professionals backed by research and countless studies, not “sky wizard said I alone know best”.
I’ll leave you alone, I just had to say something. Bless and GL. ♥️
Data shows that when men do access services such as NHS Talking Therapies, their outcomes are comparable to those of women, demonstrating that evidence-based treatment works — if men can get to it. Access to evidence-based therapies, including Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), remains vital.
But no, we (men) convinvince ourselves it won’t work and: the post. Worse when shown scientific studies we demand, we’ll reject it to keep our toxic world view intact. Talking works don’t let anyone convince you that “real men don’t talk about their problems” it makes your life worse, it makes society worse.
I feel that anything I post contradicting the “outcomes comparable to those of women”, is trying to “keep our toxic world view intact.”
I feel that any criticism I have about the validity of therapy is dismissed as a “toxic worldview”.
I feel that there is a distinct difference between “talking” and “therapy”.
I feel that you’re demonstrating the parent comment’s point:
Therapy doesn’t work well for man anyway, and health professionals are still in the denial stage, blaming the patients for the failure.
With regards to your comment:
It works better than booze and suicide. See post.
I feel that this is not a valid comparison. Yes, therapy works better than booze and suicide. You know what else works better than booze and suicide? Joining a cult. Scientology. Weed. Pretty much anything works better than booze and suicide, including therapy. I feel that the “alternatives” you provided are disingenuous.
I feel that the primary destabilizing factor in my mental well being is economic, and I feel that any benefit I might achieve from therapy is vastly outweighed by the bill for that therapy.
I feel I’m being told “Therapy is the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to mental health but through therapy”. And I feel that this sort of worldview is far more toxic than anything I might have in my head.
Peer pressure is not an adequate replacement for scientific study.
Scientific study was provided. A target was set. A target was met, twice to show it wasn’t a fluke. You may now move the target if you wish. You may now reconsider if that target was a valid one anyway. I really don’t want to pressure you into anything.
I’m just trying to set the seeds: therapy works, I’ve shown you it works. Society tells men that we shouldn’t talk about our feelings, that pressure results in the above post.
Your response is natural considering the social pressures we are under. There is a name for this social pressure: toxic masculinity, it is well discussed. But, even ignoring all the feminist mumbo jumbo, we have the studies, we have the results. Therapy works to lessen the number of suicides, we know it does.
Look at the story we tell ourselves:
Is therapy any better than a placebo?
Is a therapy session better for men than watching a YouTube video about mental health? taking a walk? Reading a book? Bingeing a TV series? Chronically masturbating?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Yes, therapy is better than all those things.
Therapy doesn’t work well for man anyway, and health professionals are still in the denial stage, blaming the patients for the failure.
The science says therapy is just as effective for men as women, we’ve known this for over 10 years. It’s a catastrophy. We need to communicate to men there are real solutions for us beyond ending it all. I’m not saying therapy is a magic bullet, but for the most vulnerable of men, we cannot be dissmissing the very real affect therapy (and the skills they develop there) has on achieving positive outcomes.
Perhaps talking isn’t the best marketing for therapy. Do we focus on the skills people develop in therapy? Is that more masculine? I don’t really know, emotional self sufficiency? Cognitive self sufficiency? Resilience Training? There has to be a way.
We need to get mem comfortable with therepy.
I know, toxic masculinity says “Real men don’t talk about their problems”. We don’t have to tell us the reason society has discouraged us from therepy, too many of us are close minded to it anyway. Just plant seeds and get men talking about shit, and plant more seeds about healthy ways of coping.
The structure of therapy required for men is different to women. A lot of therapy training is aimed at women. This means when men get up the courage to go, they can often find it ineffective.
I’m 1 for 4 with therapy providers.
I would also argue that a lot of men need structural changes to their life that they can’t make currently. Emotional based therapy is not very effective against structural problems.
Once again. You have only just learned that when men get therapy, their outcome is comparable to that of women. Before now you were musing whether therapy is as effective as staying home masturbating when we’ve known for ten years that it’s better. Finding out you are ten years out of date is not the time to keep asserting without evidence. It’s time to find some,listen, and learn.
What your asserting doesn’t even contradict what I’m saying. “Men get similar outcomes when accessing mental health services” is not contradicted by “men need different mental health services”
Again, that sucks I’m sorry to hear it.
Again, just because Patient A is allergic to drug A, Drug A does direct harm. That doesn’t mean the Drug A isn’t recommended for p Patient B. I reccomend you listen.
You may suggest alternative treatment for patient A, you haven’t. You only just learned therapy is effective for patient b,c,d,…
Again, I not only agree. I would add the women need structural changes to their life they can’t make currently. This does not contradict the data. It doesn’t contradict what I’m saying. I reccomend you listen.
What’s with the "again"s? I don’t see the commenter you’re replying to anywhere else in this thread.
My bad. I don’t read usernames. A flaw of mine.
As to the “agains”. They’re things I’ve repeated many time in this thread. Just frustrated saying the same things over and over.
Therapy doesn’t work well for man anyway, and health professionals are still in the denial stage, blaming the patients for the failure.
You know, just like anesthesiologists were about woman up to last year or so.
Medicine has a large prejudice problem.
It works better than booze and suicide. See post.
Is therapy any better than a placebo?
Is a therapy session better for men than watching a YouTube video about mental health? taking a walk? Reading a book? Bingeing a TV series? Chronically masturbating?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Saying stuff like that is self protection cope so you rationalize staying away. None of those are even remotely close replacement to therapy. I was resistant for a long time to therapy, but actually going has dramatically improved my life in ways that consuming media never could.
I’ve heard similar arguments from other people, with the only functional difference being the replacement of the word “therapy” with the word “church”.
I accept that therapy has benefited you. I accept that church has benefited others.
My own experiences with therapy do not match yours. Much like my interaction with religion, I found multiple experiences with therapy to be denigrating and exploitative. Despite external criticism and accusations of “toxicity”, I feel my viewpoints on therapy are as valid as anyone else’s.
Well, you’re entitled to your own view. I don’t know you or your history so I’m not going to harp on you. It was obvious from the jump you have therapy trauma and I’m deeply sorry for that. I’ve had bad experiences as a teen with therapy, but looking back I can see I was part of the problem. So now I just see these types of arguments as justification to keep living in a miserable dysfunctional way.
However I will say comparison between organized religion and a medical science is sort of silly. I get what you’re going for, different strokes for different folks. But therapist are trained medical professionals backed by research and countless studies, not “sky wizard said I alone know best”.
I’ll leave you alone, I just had to say something. Bless and GL. ♥️
Go, find out. Can’t be worse than being in the post.
Peer pressure is not an adequate replacement for scientific study.
Last thing I want to do is pressure you. Therapy is a safe space, you can talk or not talk as you wish.
You are proving my point brilliantly though. Men are so resistant to therapy despite it being shown to work. Here’s an article with links to a study.
Here’s an excerpt:
But no, we (men) convinvince ourselves it won’t work and: the post. Worse when shown scientific studies we demand, we’ll reject it to keep our toxic world view intact. Talking works don’t let anyone convince you that “real men don’t talk about their problems” it makes your life worse, it makes society worse.
I feel that anything I post contradicting the “outcomes comparable to those of women”, is trying to “keep our toxic world view intact.”
I feel that any criticism I have about the validity of therapy is dismissed as a “toxic worldview”.
I feel that there is a distinct difference between “talking” and “therapy”.
I feel that you’re demonstrating the parent comment’s point:
With regards to your comment:
I feel that this is not a valid comparison. Yes, therapy works better than booze and suicide. You know what else works better than booze and suicide? Joining a cult. Scientology. Weed. Pretty much anything works better than booze and suicide, including therapy. I feel that the “alternatives” you provided are disingenuous.
I feel that the primary destabilizing factor in my mental well being is economic, and I feel that any benefit I might achieve from therapy is vastly outweighed by the bill for that therapy.
I feel I’m being told “Therapy is the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to mental health but through therapy”. And I feel that this sort of worldview is far more toxic than anything I might have in my head.
Respectfully
Scientific study was provided. A target was set. A target was met, twice to show it wasn’t a fluke. You may now move the target if you wish. You may now reconsider if that target was a valid one anyway. I really don’t want to pressure you into anything.
I’m just trying to set the seeds: therapy works, I’ve shown you it works. Society tells men that we shouldn’t talk about our feelings, that pressure results in the above post.
Your response is natural considering the social pressures we are under. There is a name for this social pressure: toxic masculinity, it is well discussed. But, even ignoring all the feminist mumbo jumbo, we have the studies, we have the results. Therapy works to lessen the number of suicides, we know it does.
Look at the story we tell ourselves:
Yes, therapy is better than all those things.
The science says therapy is just as effective for men as women, we’ve known this for over 10 years. It’s a catastrophy. We need to communicate to men there are real solutions for us beyond ending it all. I’m not saying therapy is a magic bullet, but for the most vulnerable of men, we cannot be dissmissing the very real affect therapy (and the skills they develop there) has on achieving positive outcomes.
Perhaps talking isn’t the best marketing for therapy. Do we focus on the skills people develop in therapy? Is that more masculine? I don’t really know, emotional self sufficiency? Cognitive self sufficiency? Resilience Training? There has to be a way.