Anyone pushing their views is propaganda. Propaganda isn’t always a bad thing, propaganda can be good, like antifascist or pro-communist propaganda, or it can be bad, like fascist propaganda.
Pretty sure manipulating people is bad. States entrap resources, populations, and say this is ours and this is how you have to be. Governments the world over are mostly bad. Especially the powerful countries. Ml can downvote me if they want. But if the east or west were either so good our world wouldnt be a shit hole filled with war. Its pretty obvious. The capitalists need to not exist anymore, the emirates need to give up their monarchies, and Russia needs to let go of Putin. There could be peace. People with power just love power more.
These type of motherfuckers have no problem with the self help guru scams or redpill influencers selling courses people into believing lies but they always draw the line at a communist telling a centrist, “Fascism is bad actually and diversity is good for everybody.”
This is just idealism, though. Power isn’t a self-driving end, profit is what’s important in capitalism, and is why socialist economies achieve better metrics even with lower resources. What you’re doing right now is “propaganda,” in that you’re trying to convince me (or others) of your views.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it. A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest. Which is why they should not exist. We will continue to be inundated with propaganda and divided until they are abolished.
A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest.
I can’t think of any human structure, or any person, who doesn’t tend to act in their own perceived best interest. The issue is when self interest contradicts mutual interest.
Self-interest is an important concept in understanding why capitalist corporations are consistently antisocial and why most states act against their citizens, but self-interest isn’t a reason in itself.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it.
Government propaganda definitely predates the modern English language. e.g. Roman Empire
You never have anything to say that means anything. My number 1 troll. Cowbee could convince the world of what they believe which is cool. You would come along and ruin it afterwards.
No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.
Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.
They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.
Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.
How do you intend on defending against a NATO invasion without a hierarchically-organised military?
Similarly, how do you intend on resisting NATO espionage and sabotage?
Management and administration is usually referred to by anarchists as justifiable hierarchy, because pretending management isn’t a form of heirarchy is fringe among anarchists, in my experience. Secondly, states are not used that way in socialist systems.
Yet again, “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.”
Y’all have had the better part of two centuries to read On Authority, it ain’t even that long. Management without hierarchy jfc, whatever sort of structure you think that entails I can guarantee you’d have called the exact same structure totalitarian or some such childish name when it was actually attempted in a socialist state.
Anyone pushing their views is propaganda. Propaganda isn’t always a bad thing, propaganda can be good, like antifascist or pro-communist propaganda, or it can be bad, like fascist propaganda.
Pretty sure manipulating people is bad. States entrap resources, populations, and say this is ours and this is how you have to be. Governments the world over are mostly bad. Especially the powerful countries. Ml can downvote me if they want. But if the east or west were either so good our world wouldnt be a shit hole filled with war. Its pretty obvious. The capitalists need to not exist anymore, the emirates need to give up their monarchies, and Russia needs to let go of Putin. There could be peace. People with power just love power more.
Influencing people to hold beliefs like ‘nazis bad, colonialism bad, transphobia bad’ is good, actually.
These type of motherfuckers have no problem with the self help guru scams or redpill influencers selling courses people into believing lies but they always draw the line at a communist telling a centrist, “Fascism is bad actually and diversity is good for everybody.”
This is just idealism, though. Power isn’t a self-driving end, profit is what’s important in capitalism, and is why socialist economies achieve better metrics even with lower resources. What you’re doing right now is “propaganda,” in that you’re trying to convince me (or others) of your views.
It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it. A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest. Which is why they should not exist. We will continue to be inundated with propaganda and divided until they are abolished.
I can’t think of any human structure, or any person, who doesn’t tend to act in their own perceived best interest. The issue is when self interest contradicts mutual interest.
Self-interest is an important concept in understanding why capitalist corporations are consistently antisocial and why most states act against their citizens, but self-interest isn’t a reason in itself.
Government propaganda definitely predates the modern English language. e.g. Roman Empire
Stop trying to manipulate people
You never have anything to say that means anything. My number 1 troll. Cowbee could convince the world of what they believe which is cool. You would come along and ruin it afterwards.
It’s amazing how you’re incapable of seeing the irony of aggressively pushing your opinion on other people in this thread.
I see it. I just felt the discussion had drifted.
No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.
Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.
Bedtimes are authoritarian
No gods, no broccoli
They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.
Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.
How do you intend on defending against a NATO invasion without a hierarchically-organised military?
Similarly, how do you intend on resisting NATO espionage and sabotage?
Management and administration is usually referred to by anarchists as justifiable hierarchy, because pretending management isn’t a form of heirarchy is fringe among anarchists, in my experience. Secondly, states are not used that way in socialist systems.
Yet again, “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.”
Y’all have had the better part of two centuries to read On Authority, it ain’t even that long. Management without hierarchy jfc, whatever sort of structure you think that entails I can guarantee you’d have called the exact same structure totalitarian or some such childish name when it was actually attempted in a socialist state.
Alright, what’s your plan to abolish hierarchies, chief?
Call them by another name, silly
Also, gotta make sure they form implicitly around the most narcissistic individuals without any means of oversight or recall. https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm