This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Flew back from Hawaii on WestJet last year and paid for extended comfort… I don’t regret it purely because it would of been an even shittier experience otherwise.
This is just about greed it’s not to make it more affordable. they changed everything last year making it far more expensive for everything. Not to mention their points have gone to shit and their companion vouchers are worthless.
Nationalize the airlines and remove the profit motives.
Nationalize everything.
Anyone remember when Air Canada really was a great airline?
The article is about WestJet.
If charge by the minute if I were them.
I’d rather pay for preventing the front passenger from reclining into me.
Then he pays even more to recline even further. Will you match the $15?
Nah, they’ll alternate reclinable and non-recinable rows - just for fun.
The hell they are…
Pamphlets and brochures are being replaced with more accurate, updated versions.
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I’ll pay extra to disable the person in front of me from being able to recline their seat.
As it is, I never use seat recline because there isnt fucking room.
They cost $42,95 but I kinda think it’s a shitty move when you can upgrade to extra legroom in most flights.
I’m 6’3". Why should I have to pay while stubbies don’t?
Sure then they should have reduced the cost of non reclining seats and nobody would care. But they are charging more for something they was included before.
where exactly is there not room, in your experience?
in mine, it just doesn’t really matter, so I’ve never been able to relate to comments like this, and nobody ever actually explains the details of why there isn’t room
I could understand somebody with long legs and the seat going back three quarters of an inch is enough to make a difference, but that’s about it, and that seems pretty uncommon to me because most people are not 6ft tall. although I’m not accounting for slouching
I’m over 6 feet. Only place in westjet flights I have enough legroom to not be unhealthy are the exit aisle and the first one behind second class seats.
So if the seat in front of me reclines into my face, I cannot move without paying?
Oh they’re getting rid of that too. No reclining.
Ugh. What a pain. Can’t they just make it a subscription instead?
/s
Stop posting clickbait.
Put the proper noun in the goddamn headline.
I’m actually fine with them removing ALL seat reclining options.
The tiny angle it goes back is not worth have the idiot ahead of you firback the seat while you are eating
I wish our government would regulate this shit. Airlines shouldn’t be able to nickle and dime like this. Prices just keep going up 😒
I agree, something should be done. But I’m not sure about price increase. I’ve been flying one long haul destination for almost 20 years. The catch? The price has been about there all this time. I always book a long time in advance, but still.
Do you have any idea how much more expensive flying used to be? When I was small, in the 1960s, people might take one overseas flight in their lives. Some never did.
A quick search indicates that a round-trip flight between New York and London in 1965 cost about $3,500 in today’s dollars. Now it averages $800.
Not that I disagree that airlines are nickel and diming people and keep pushing to see how far they can go before it hurts their bottom line.
People bitch and moan about airlines, but the only problem I have had with airlines is the passengers.
No one had to fly beside some sweaty fat fuck in flip flops in 1965.
Like in the 60s, the IBM 3.5mb hard drive went for $35,000 a month. Now the 24,000,000mb drives are $370.
Phill Edwards has a great video talking about the changes in airlines, while focused on the US market, it has a wide impact to the entire industry.
As a matter of fact after looking into this a little more, it’s cheaper to fly now for several reasons. Not just economy of scale but also the technology.
(Note: All 1970 figures are adjusted for inflation to 2024 U.S. dollars using a CPI multiplier of approximately 8.04. We assume a 1970 jet fuel price of $0.11/gallon and a 2024 price of $2.50/gallon.)
Cost Analysis: 707 vs. 737 MAX 8 Aircraft & Capacity
- Purchase Price (Market Value):
- 707-320B (1970): $8.0 Million
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $64.32 Million
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $55 Million
- Change (Real Terms): -14.5%
- Typical Seats (Mixed/Typical):
- 707-320B (1970): 145
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 145
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 166
- Change (Real Terms): +14.5%
- Industry Load Factor (LF):
- 707-320B (1970): 49.3%
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 49.3%
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 85.0%
- Change (Real Terms): +35.7 pts
- Avg. Passengers per Flight:
- 707-320B (1970): 71.5
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 71.5
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 141.1
- Change (Real Terms): +97.3% Efficiency Metrics
- Engines:
- 707-320B (1970): 4 (Low-bypass)
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 4
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 2 (High-bypass)
- Change (Real Terms): -50%
- Cockpit Crew:
- 707-320B (1970): 3–4
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 3–4
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 2
- Change (Real Terms): -33% to -50%
- Fuel Burn (Gallons/Hour):
- 707-320B (1970): 2,500
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 2,500
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 580
- Change (Real Terms): -76.8% Hourly Operating Costs (Est.)
- Fuel Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $275.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $2,211
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $1,450
- Change (Real Terms): -34.4%
- Crew Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $250.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $2,010
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $850
- Change (Real Terms): -57.7%
- Maintenance Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $150.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $1,206
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $750
- Change (Real Terms): -37.8%
- Total Hourly Op. Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $675.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $5,427
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $3,050
- Change (Real Terms): -43.8% Economics & Pricing
- Cost per Seat Hour:
- 707-320B (1970): $4.66
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $37.43
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $18.37
- Change (Real Terms): -50.9%
- Cost per Passenger Hour:
- 707-320B (1970): $9.44
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $75.90
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $21.62
- Change (Real Terms): -71.5%
(Note: Hourly Operating Costs focus on Fuel, Crew, and Maintenance for direct comparison of operational efficiency.)
This direct comparison between two similarly sized narrow-body aircraft reveals a profound improvement in aviation economics over the past 50 years.
-
Acquisition Costs and Capacity: Remarkably, the 737 MAX 8 is actually cheaper in real terms (-14.5%) than the Boeing 707 was in 1970. The 707 was expensive, state-of-the-art technology for its time. Manufacturing efficiencies and the massive scale of the 737 program have driven down the real acquisition cost of modern narrow-bodies, despite their increased complexity. Furthermore, the 737 MAX 8 carries about 14.5% more seats (166 vs. 145) due to modern, denser seating configurations.
-
The Fuel Efficiency Chasm: This is the most striking technological difference. The 707 utilized four early-generation, low-bypass engines that were incredibly thirsty, burning about 2,500 gallons per hour. The 737 MAX 8, utilizing two highly advanced, high-bypass CFM LEAP engines, burns only 580 gallons per hour. This represents a 76.8% reduction in fuel burn per hour.
-
Operating Costs Plummet: When comparing these two aircraft, the total hourly operating cost of the 737 MAX 8 is 43.8% lower in real terms than the 707.
- Fuel Costs: Despite the massive increase in the price of jet fuel (from $0.11 to $2.50), the efficiency gains are so profound that the real cost of fuel per hour is 34.4% lower today.
- Crew Costs: Real crew costs are down 57.7%. This is driven by the elimination of the Flight Engineer and Navigator roles required on the 707, standardizing the two-person cockpit.
- Maintenance Costs: Real maintenance costs are down 37.8%. A major driver here is the shift from four engines on the 707 to two engines on the 737 MAX 8, significantly reducing engine maintenance overhead and benefiting from improved reliability.
- The Impact of Utilization: The technological improvements are magnified by changes in airline business practices following deregulation. The shift from planes flying half-empty (49.3% load factor) to nearly full (85.0% load factor) is crucial.
The combined effect of higher seating density and better load factors means the average 737 MAX 8 flight carries 141.1 passengers, nearly double the 71.5 passengers carried on the average 707 flight (+97.3%). Conclusion
When comparing the Boeing 707 directly to the modern 737 MAX 8, the advancements are extraordinary. The modern aircraft is cheaper to buy (in real terms), carries more seats, and costs nearly half as much to operate per hour.
By combining a 43.8% reduction in hourly costs with a 97.3% increase in passengers per flight, the inflation-adjusted cost to the airline to fly one passenger for one hour has decreased by a staggering 71.5% (from $75.90 to $21.62).
- Purchase Price (Market Value):
Why should people be able to fly for cheap?
Air travel is the single biggest contributor to CO2 pollution that the average person produces. Environmentally speaking, air travel should more expensive.
And we have overtourism running rampant now precisely because air travel is now so cheap, destroying many local economies in tourism hot spots.
Totally, only the ultra wealthy should be able to afford flying.
Those plebs crammed into economy are what’s really killing the planet. That’s why I’m glad I use paper straws so the CEO of Starbucks can fly 1000 miles a day on his private jet to work. RTO baby!
They’re also a lot more planes today.
But that would add needless bureaucracy! The industry will regulate itself and save taxpayer money!
The airline industry figured out long ago that people will suffer the most miserable flights possible in order to save money but they will absolutely take free comfort upgrades. If they do this it’s to save money and make the flight cheaper because if other airlines offer reclining seats at the same price customers will take those instead as a free upgrade.
Please explain how this saves them money? All I see is finding ways to upcharge customers for what used to be standard options, while maybe cramming in one more row of passengers.
Cramming in one more row of passengers means you get more passengers per flight => each passenger costs less to fly.
I don’t actually know if they’re going to fit in one more row though. Maybe the non-reclining seats are lighter in weight? That would save money on fuel costs.
If the system for optional reclining seats actually adds weight to the plane then they’re taking a gamble that enough passengers will pay extra for the reclining to pay for the additional fuel costs. That could backfire!
In a lot of ways this seems like an experiment that could backfire, even if it doesn’t risk increasing flight costs on some flights. Only time will tell!
You mean “to increase profits”…
That’s less specific. You can increase profits by saving money (reducing costs) or you can increase profits by selling more (increasing sales).
This plan to take away reclining seats is unlikely to increase sales!
are you in a “paid for oxygen row” or a “hold your breath” row ?
Don’t give Omar Baba any ideas!
Pure insanity.
Pure greed.
The only difference is societal acceptance.
