Both are bad and should be villified internationally and face repurcussions for their actions.
Should the US pay reparations to Russia?
Anyone: “USA and EU is way worse than RF and PRC!”
Libs:
Looking to fill out my liberal bingo card I came to this thread looking for “two things can be true at once”.
Edit: by announcing I am observing a thread I have changed its behaviour. Redditors see my comment and rephrase into other clichés.
Wow only 3 minutes after your comment!
Sadly I’m looking for the specific phrase. It’s a cliché so it comes up often enough
Hey that’s me! Sadly not many replies though
…you understand that two things CAN be true at once, though. Right?
The one true statement is violating sovereignty is a bad thing. That’s the one bad thing.
It’s true, generally one should not violate sovereignty by overthrowing a country’s government and replacing them with warmongering nazis eager to do ethnic cleansing.
You do understand how saying “two things can be true at once” as if you’re talking to an actual toddler is incredibly condescending and not a good place from whence to start a conversation, right? Have the basic respect for someone you’re talking and assume they also have object permanence.
Stepping into the room like you’re the enlightened Buddha whose shit don’t stink, because you just figured out that both Biden and Trump can be senile at the same time, only has the effect to make everyone else look at you like the idiot you are for- Not figuring it out earlier and
- Behaving as if you’re presenting some novel insight.
Alternatively if you’re trying to dunk on someone have the basic respect for the audience and be either effective or original, which “two things can be true at once” is, ironically, neither.
Edit: its also an incredibly reductive way of approaching geopolitics. Reducing critique of US foreign policy to “our guy bad yes, but their guy bad also!!” is in fact what whataboutism is supposed to describe. It’s a rhetorical trick drawing a line where the only discussion about world events can be about wether one of the two things the iniator mentions is more true than another. Bring up a third thing or a more in-depth critique of one of the two pre-existing things and you’ll get drowned out.
It’s a thought-terminating cliché.@Saapas@piefed.zip who I can’t respond to for some reason: good point! Wish I’d mentioned that
Alternatively if you’re trying to dunk on someone have the basic respect for the audience and be either effective or original, which “two things can be true at once” is, ironically, neither.
Whoops. Read the rest of the text next time buddy.
“RuSsIa MaN BaD!!”
Not what I’d call peak originality lol.
Not sure why you can’t reply to me though. I’m testing if it works for me replying to you (E: seems to work, might be an instance thing but no idea why it would only work in one direction)
You do understand how saying “two things can be true at once” as if you’re talking to an actual toddler is incredibly condescending and not a good place from whence to start a conversation, right? Have the basic respect for someone you’re talking and assume they also have object permanence.
If OP was looking for adult conversation, this title might’ve not been the greatest place to start lol:
Libs: “RuSsIa MaN BaD!!”
Gets called out for acting like a child
“Heh, just trying to make you feel at home”
The shithead classic
That was a different guy though
So both should be villified for invading other countries, right?
Yup, and western European countries that participated should be vilified as well.
How dare you stand against USSR
USSR has been dead and buried for a while now. This was about the US and Russia
memes community
posts tankie propaganda with no entertainment value
I wonder why no one likes tankies?
Communists can have our own spaces, just like y’all can have your own. Communists tend to not be particularly fond of Lemmy.world either.
Feel free to leave
Americans don’t like the USA taking these actions (well until the big fat orange blob actual does them, then his base instantaneously flips their opinion to being for it)
Yeah they do, they just claim afterwards that they didn’t. One Day Everyone Will Have Been Against This.
Is there a same reason why a man at an airport would be wearing all these hats?
They don’t fit in his luggage (or would be smashed) so that’s the easiest way to take them onboard. Maybe purchased as gifts to relatives.
Just because Trump also breaks international law, doesn’t make it better when Putin does it (and not the first time either). Yes, Russia Man Bad! 👍🏻 Orange Man Also Bad!
The United States didn’t start invading and meddling in other countries until trump?
Trump has been president since 1846?
Russia has been doing imperialism and colonialism since forever. Otherwise there wouldn’t be such significant Russian populations that are still monolingually Russian in former Soviet states.
The entire existence of the US is imperialism and colonialism. Until the 1960s the US had a policy of eradicating indigenous languages and cultures. So did Canada and Australia by the way.
Do you think imperialism in Russia stopped with the fall of the Tsar? If the Soviet Union was so anti-imperialist, why weren’t surnames in member states derussified? Why weren’t placenames derussified? Why didn’t Russian settlers move back to the Russian homeland?
Same goes for the US and so on. At least reparations/compensation and derussification/deanglicization are necessary.
Multiculturalism good except for those orc hordes 🤡
Nice strawman.
The USSR was anti-imperialist and anti-colonial, and the Russian Federation inhereted no colonies of the tsarist Russian Empire because of this. There was no “soviet imperialism.”
Why werent surnames in Soviet states derussified then?
“Russification” was stopped by the soviets, and there was a two-fold effort to promote an internationalist “soviet” identity while preserving national identities. Derussifying surnames was not a priority, but numerous gains were made for cultural preservation.
You’re also confusing culture with imperialism, which is a form of international exploitation on an economic basis typically reinforced by methods like couping, installing compradors, etc.
No it wasn’t, otherwise Tajiks wouldn’t still have -ov and -ova at the end of their surnames. Also see link to article written in the late 70s by an actual anti-imperialist socialist, explaining why the Soviet Union totally was imperialist. https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-3/iwk-ussr.htm
As explained earlier, your supposed “anti-imperialist socialists” were upholding Pol Pot in Cambodia against Vietnam, and siding with the US over the USSR, while the USSR was supporting Vietnam, the DPRK, Cuba, Algeria, and more. The groups siding with China in the Sino-Soviet split took all manner of incorrect lines as an overcorrection from Khrushchev’s revisionist stance that class struggle was over in the USSR. In the same time period, the USSR was supporting revolution in Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Algeria, South Africa and more.
The USSR did not colonize nor plunder internationally, instead it focused on internationalism and mutual development. It was in no way fascist either, public ownership was the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes in control of the state. Is the Red Flag Flying? by Albert Syzmanski is a good book going over the political economy of the later soviet union.
Absolutely hilarious!
Ignore the violent repression of eastern Europe, the subjugation of native populations in the south and east, the proxy wars and the sphere of influence and international power politics.
I’m having a hard time right now and you genuinely made me laugh, thank you!
If your entire understanding of the USSR came from decades of propaganda from its geopolitical enemies maybe you should look into how much of what you were taught was either interpreted in the worst way possible if not entirely made up. A lot of anti communist myths were started by the literal nazis but the west ran with them because they hate communism more than they hate mass genocide.
Thats not saying much tbf. They don’t hate mass genocide at all.
The USSR did not colonize nor plunder internationally, instead it focused on internationalism and mutual development. It aided national liberation movements in Algeria, Cuba, Vietnam, and more. Having influence internationally is not imperialism.
Interesting, it’s your one and only comment in a one month old account.
You’re posting an article written during the height of the Sino-Soviet split, upholding the PRC which attacked Vietnam and upholded Pol Pot in Cambodia, sided with the US over the USSR, and took all manner of incorrect lines as an overcorrection from Khrushchev’s revisionist stance that class struggle was over in the USSR. In the same time period, the USSR was supporting revolution in Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Algeria, South Africa and more.
The USSR did not colonize nor plunder internationally, instead it focused on internationalism and mutual development. It was in no way fascist either, public ownership was the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes in control of the state. Is the Red Flag Flying? by Albert Syzmanski is a good book going over the political economy of the later soviet union.
I dunno, Russian man seems pretty sensible all things considered.
If the warzaw pact was still a thing and it had slowly been inducting south- and central American nations, despite agreements not to do so, and it was now about to induct Mexico (which had had its government couped and replaced with a pro-russian government some years before), then I think it would be pretty sensible of the US to draw a red line at mexican Warzaw pact membership and invade in order to avoid it.
Also in this analogy Texas is part of Mexico and the Mexican government has been bombing Texas for eight years, in breach of two treaties with the US.So mexico = ukraine? Then texas = ?
It’s not a perfect metaphor, but Texas would be the the two Ukrainian states with a majority ethnic russian population that sought independence after eurromaidan
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn’t constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Joe Biden supported and enabled the genocide in Gaza, and every president before him committed invasions and war crimes. The fact that you think it’s just a Trump thing and not a US empire thing reveals your geopolitical understanding to be puddle-deep. Hell, Putin was our guy. We put him there.
Liberals still deny that Biden is responsible for the genocide in Gaza
Trump is the president right now though
That is not an excuse to forgo object permanence and pretend Trump is an anomaly in any way except for how blatant he is. He’s not a deviation from US policy, he’s a distillation of it.
Liberals were happy to close their eyes and support genocide when it was covered by the thinnest veil of decorum
I’m just saying they might’ve mentioned Trump only since he is the president right now
You think the fact that Russia is put under sanctions, barred from participating in international sports and other activities, has their gas lines to the rest of Europe bombed by the US, and is generally treated like they’re Nazi Germany is sensible? In a world where the countries making those decisions turn away when Israel and the US do much worse?
So do you feel like Russia shouldn’t be treated like that or the US and Israel also should be treated like that? I think the latter tbh
Well the US and Israel are much worse than Russia, so they should be treated worse than that, as should Western European countries that support their atrocities
Well lets see the why shall we.
Russia: Engaged in a military operation because of ever encroaching US imperialism via NATO and installing a Nazi puppet government against the wishes of the Ukrainian people as is the norm and attempting to liberate them
US/Orange man; oil and stopped those EvIl CoMmiEs
Why is attacking the outer reaches of Ukraine then, when NATO and US imperialism are the problem? Also how is the government nazi with two Jews in it’s cabinet of ministers? You know, the central part of Nazism is the antisemitism. Pretty weak excuses for an invasion.
Because those outer reaches are the regions that asked them for help when Ukraine spent 8 years slaughtering them for being too ethnically Russian
And Russia finally came to help them in 2021 and not amy sooner.
I know about a certain nazi government with way more than two.
How can America be racist when they had a Black President?
Typical lib selective memory. Ukraine has been attempting drone swarms into Moscow targeting civilians for half a year at least, just recently struck at Putin’s houses to attempt a decapitation strike.
Oreshnik is a good reminder that if they really wanna throw away conventions of war, they don’t have a single way to intercept what would come back to them. Even then, the targets were completely legitimate and civilian casualties minimal (despite Ukraine regularly setting up bases in civilian centers, which is a flagrant war crime)
Regarding your edit: Obama was the president of the most racist country on earth ffs. There were plenty of Jewish SS members. Y’all have had it explained to you for ages and you turn around and say it again verbatim next time because you’re not interested in learning, you’re just cheering for your team and it makes me not at all surprised that y’all choose the guys in Nazi garb with Nazi insignias saying they’re going to do Nazi stuff first chance they get.
Are you saying the 3 year war is in retaliation for drone strikes within the past year?
It must be hard going through life being this intentionally obtuse
Oh shit, I forgot I’m posting to a Russian propaganda board 🙄 my bad, forget it happened. And please don’t report me to GRU.
If Putin said the sky was blue, would you suddenly insist it wasn’t?
Also: “everyone I disagree with is a russian propagandist. I am the only sapient creature in the world” - You, when you’re particularly honest with yourself
They 100% would
Considering how they reacted when Putin explained basic Eastern European history to
you’re probably right
Cope
Let’s send both Trump and Putin to the ICC in The Hague. How about that?
What does that accomplish?
Biden, Obama and Bush Jr too
And Clinton, and the other Clinton, and Colin Powell, and Condoleeza Rice, and-
Trump and Putin sure, but also everyone whose ever had a leadership role in the USA military. Obama is still alive. Bush is still alive. And ideally to a more trustworthy court.
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn’t constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Fine, let’s send every single US president.
I agree, but only one of those 2 countries has proclaimed (in law if im not mistaken, but i may be wrong) that they would intervene militarily to prevent one of their own from being tried by the ICC, regardless of the actual crimes they’ve committed. And im talking about sending special forces to extract said alleged criminal against humanity, from another sovereign nation, abiding by its own laws.
Guess which of the 2 I’m talking about? Russia is by no means the good guy, but its not a binary issue, as most people on the internet seem to react when these 2 countries are mentioned in the same sentence. Russia being ‘bad’ doesn’t automatically make the US ‘good’ and vice versa.
Sure, who’s worse shifts back and forth over the years, but to my eyes, currently, the US is worse, and its been that way for a long time. Way before trump. Anyone who thinks this all started when trump took office, is a bit deluded.
But you’re 100% right, send both of them to the ICC, in an ideal world.
I’d be on board.
